Badass of the Week
 

The Great Locomotive Chase

 
 

In honor of the 4th of July, Badass of the Week author Ben Thompson and Professor Pat Larash talk about some of America's first Medal of Honor recipients -- Union soldier John Alfred Wilson, hero of the Great Locomotive Chase, and Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, the only woman to ever receive the nation's highest award for battlefield bravery.

Episode Transcript:

A single locomotive flies around the bend with no cars in tow. The two men inside frantically shovel coal as if their lives depend on it.

Suddenly, a second locomotive roars around the bend right after the first. But this one, is going backwards, it’s on fire, and it’s manned by angry confederate soldiers determined capture the fleeing Union Soldiers ahead of them.

This isn’t just any old chase. This is the great locomotive chase. And Union Soldiers John Alfred Wilson and Mark Wood are both about to jump for it. In 3… 2…. 1….

Ben [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to another episode of Badass of the Week. My name is Ben Thompson, and I'm here, as always, with my co-host, Dr. Pat. Larry Pat. Happy 4th of July.

Pat [00:01:07] Happy 4th of July to you too!

Ben [00:01:09] Yeah, we are. We generally like to think of ourselves as being a fairly international show. But today on the 4th of July, we are going to celebrate some American badasses. And we have some really interesting stories that we want to talk about, particularly as they relate to the Medal of Honor. Right, Pat?

Pat [00:01:32] Yeah, the Medal of Honor was the first and to this day, highest award for military valor offered by the U.S. government. It was something created in 1861. The U.S. looked at the British and said, okay, you have the Victoria Cross. Let's do something like that for our people. And originally, it was simply issued for quote unquote, gallantry in action. But over the years, the circumstances for receiving it have been really tightened up. And to illustrate this, about 1200 Medals of Honor were awarded during the Civil War. But then when they tightened the restrictions in 1916, over 900 of them were revoked.

Ben [00:02:18] Yeah, And it's it's what you said, the Medal of Honor. Now it has this very kind of sacred reputation as being the highest award for bravery. And I think, you know, in in looking through the annals of the Medal of Honor, in many cases, the person who received it was killed in the action for which they received it. And talking about the the revoked awards, you know, what ended up happening was there was only one award for bravery, and it was the Medal of Honor. And, you know, around the time of World War One, we started the US government created different awards of different levels. So you have the Distinguished Service Cross and the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. And, you know, there's there's a number of of of other medals and there's a tier of them. And Medal of Honor was at the top. And so they had given out so many during the Civil War that they they took some of them back or lowered them to Silver Stars or Bronze Stars, depending on what the action was the recipient had taken. Everything that you mentioned is going to be relevant as we go through the rest of the the episode. But what I wanted to start with was very quickly, I wanted to talk about the most recent Medal of Honor recipient because we're going to talk about the first one and we're going to talk about the first. And to this day, only woman who has ever received one. We thought, hey, 4th of July, let's let's get three American badasses in here. And we'll start with the most recent Medal of Honor recipient. So as of the time of this recording, the most recent Medal of Honor was awarded on the 3rd of March, March three, 2023, to Colonel Parris Davis. And, you know, with all of the acts of bravery and heroism that are taking place along, you know, throughout the United States military today and in recent memory. VA you would think that perhaps this award would be for Afghanistan or maybe Iraq or some other action that is being taken somewhere in the in the world right now. But no, it's from 60 years ago. And it's a it's a Vietnam War hero, which is the most recent recipient, which is kind of interesting, right?

Pat [00:04:27] Yeah. Sounds like it was long overdue.

Ben [00:04:30] So I want to talk about Parris Davis quickly. He was born on May six, 1939. He studied political science at Southern University on an ROTC scholarship and shipped out to South Vietnam very early on, before the war, really even before the Vietnam War, really kicked into gear. He was a captain in the fifth Special Forces Group, part of the four Special Forces, the Green Berets, the same unit that we talked about when we were talking about Robert Howard a few weeks ago. He was one of the first black officers in the history of the US Special Forces. The action for which he received the Medal of Honor took place on June 17th, 1965. So this is really early on in the fighting. The U.S. hadn't kind of officially been involved yet at this point, which may contribute to why it took so long for him to receive the award. But he was an advisor. He was he was there with three other Special forces, Green Berets, training the 883rd Vietnamese Regional Forces Company. So South Vietnamese Army and just a couple of American advisors kind of training and guiding them and helping them out and, you know, providing, you know, oversight, but not really supposed to be too involved in the fighting. But what happens is, Captain Davis, he gets wind that there is a relatively large. A North Vietnamese army base in the region. And he leads the 883rd on a mission to take it. The situation is right and he sees an opportunity and he is able to get the drop on the base and he makes the call to attack and they attack. And he is, you know, he very heroic in the battle that ensues. He kills several of the enemy personally, including in hand-to-hand combat. He gets wounded by a grenade, but he keeps going. He captures the base, takes some gun positions, captures prisoners, reorganizes his forces, and then starts calling in artillery and airstrikes on enemy positions. So this very heroic battle to take this NVA base that outnumbered his own guys, but he was able to through surprise and and strategy, overcome that and take a bunch of prisoners, which is great except that there were more North Vietnamese called in to assist and there's a big counterattack. Oh, yeah. So there's a counterattack. And now that he's taken this, he has to hold it. So North Vietnamese are attacking the base that he's just captured. He's shot. He gets into some hand-to-hand combat, gets wounded with a knife, but kills that guy. He's heavily outnumbered now and starts calling for evacuation, which I think reading some of these accounts, like he was kind of hoping would have come a little bit sooner, Like you get in there, you hit this base, you capture the guys, you get out of there. He's kind of soon as possible. Right. Yeah. Before they can mass a counterattack, which is for whatever reason, what happens in this situation. So now he's fighting for his life. He and his guys. There's three other special forces with him. And then the 18/83 South Vietnamese Army. They're fighting for their lives and they're fighting for their lives for 19 hours, which is way too long to be on an operation like this. You're not supposed to be fighting for 19 hours straight. You were supposed to get in and get out. You're not supposed.

Pat [00:07:48] To do anything for 19 hours straight.

Ben [00:07:50] That's true. Yeah. You got to sleep at some point, right? Yeah.

Pat [00:07:54] Yeah. So? But somehow he's pushing through.

Ben [00:07:56] He's pushing through, and he's the commander, so he is organizing the defense. A couple of his guys. Two of the other Americans get shot. Many of the South Vietnamese guys get shot. He's kind of like fighting for his life. And the rescue helicopters eventually arrive, and he's got to get the Americans out of there. I mean, he can't leave his own guys behind. You can't leave anybody behind. But he's prioritizing some his Green Beret, his Green Beret buddies. And so he throws one of the guys on his back, runs across an open field towards this helicopter, throws the guy in the helicopter and is in the helicopter pilots like, All right, get in here. We got to get out of here.

Pat [00:08:32] Yeah, I'm imagining the helicopter blades are working all this time. The guys, the pilots ready to leave. He wants to leave.

Ben [00:08:39] He's waved. Yeah, he's hovering. Right. This is. I mean, you can you can kind of picture the Vietnam War era. You know, think about the movies you've seen with, like, the helicopter blades kind of rippling the grass around him. There's gunfire coming in everywhere. And he looks that guy on the the The Hellion is like, no, there's another guy back. There's another wounded American back there. I got to get him. So he runs back 150 yards across an open field, being shot at by the enemy the entire time. Whoa. Yeah. Grabs the second dude, brings him back to the helicopter, puts him in a helicopter, and then. And then the helicopter guy's like, All right, man, that was very heroic. We get in and Captain Davis is like, No, I'm staying. I have to, like, organize the rest of these South Vietnamese. And we got to, like, we got to hold this position. So the helicopter leaves. Both those Americans that were put on it, they they survive the battle. And Captain Davis goes back into the battle and wins it. So he is he's wounded several times. He's he's knifed. He's hit with a grenade, shrapnel. A couple of times he shot a couple of times. But he refuses extraction. He oversees the all of the wounded getting out of there. And he spends the later part of the battle radioing in coordinates for airstrikes until the enemy is destroyed.

Pat [00:09:56] That's impressive.

Ben [00:09:57] Pretty amazing. Yeah. He continues through the entire Vietnam War like he doesn't. The war's not over for him. In 1965, he survives the war. He retires in 1985. At some point, he was the commander of the 10th Special Forces. He retires as a colonel, which is pretty high ranking stone just below general, and he receives a Silver Star for this action and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. But for whatever reason, the paperwork got lost.

Pat [00:10:24] Oh, no.

Ben [00:10:24] Yeah. And then he was he was re suggested for it. And then that paperwork got lost. And, you know, we were talking about this with Robert Howard a little bit where, you know, there's a chance that it was like, you know, we don't want to give the Medal of Honor to the American who was fighting before the U.S. had officially declared war against the Vietnamese. And there's some political reasoning behind this. And there's some maybe he shouldn't have been maybe like he wasn't supposed to be there. And that's a thing that. So I don't know why the paperwork or maybe it just got lost. That happens because that's all is behind the desk and that's, you know.

Pat [00:11:00] Yeah. And we're talking about literal paperwork here.

Ben [00:11:02] Yeah, it's literal paperwork. Like, I don't know where my birth certificate is, right?

Pat [00:11:07] Yeah.

Ben [00:11:08] So, anyway, a campaign got started recently for him to get that upgrade from the Silver Star to the Medal of Honor. And the campaign was largely from people that were there, like some of the some of his guys that maybe not necessarily the the three guys that were with him there, but he was part of a Green Beret base in South Vietnam. And the men that were there with him were like, this guy deserves if anybody deserves it, it's this guy. So in March 2023, he finally received it and he traveled to the White House and got the medal put around his neck. And I'm going to just kind of leave it with his words. He said that receiving it, quote prompted a wave of memories of the men and women I served with in Vietnam from the members of the fifth Special Forces Group and other U.S. military units to the doctors and nurses who cared for our wounded. And so very grateful to my family and friends within the military and elsewhere who kept alive the story of 1883 21 at Camp Young Son. I often think of those fateful 19 hours and what our team did to make sure that no man was left behind on the battlefield. So that is the most recent recipient. Colonel Paras Davis of the Special Forces. And when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about the first man and the first. And to this day, only woman who has ever received the Medal of Honor.

Pat [00:12:26] Yes. And be advised, we are talking about the horrors of the Civil War, including prisoner of war camps and battlefield surgery. So consider this a content warning.

Ben [00:12:48] Okay, we are back and we are going to talk about the first recipients of the Medal of Honor. And one thing that makes me really happy when we talk about this is that the first Medals of Honor were given out for an event known as the Great Locomotive Chase.

Pat [00:13:07] Which sounds like, say, a classic silent movie film or something like that.

Ben [00:13:12] And I think they have made plenty of silent movies about this event. Yeah, the Great Locomotive Chase, which is such just a great a great name for a historical event, especially one that is going to, you know, have such lasting significance culturally as this will.

Pat [00:13:28] So what is the actual great locomotive chase?

Ben [00:13:31] Well, let's get into it. I am going to open with a quote from Private John Alfred Wilson of the 21st Ohio Infantry. He says, Experience has taught me that men in the fix we were in is the worst and most desperate creature on earth and will do things that seem utter impossibilities before their accomplishments. So that's how I'm going to preface the great locomotive chase. The great Locomotive chases the tail of two more than two. But specifically, we're going to focus on two union troopers who went on a very high risk, a basically suicide sabotage mission behind enemy lines. They get involved in a high speed train chase that crosses several counties and eventually states. They basically do battle with an entire regiment of Confederate troops and they spend weeks on the run being pursued by basically every able bodied man in the Confederacy. They break out of a prison and they eventually become the first people to receive the Medal of Honor. So let's start in April of 1862. The Medal of Honor was originally commissioned and approved in 1861, but the first ones are not awarded until over a year after that.

Pat [00:14:45] So they came up with the concept of the Medal of Honor before they had a specific person or persons to confer it upon.

Ben [00:14:51] Exactly. And they had to pass through all of the paperwork and stuff. They had to get congressional thing to approval to create the award, and then they had to approve it for the Army. And I you know, I don't know all of the bureaucratic details of it because, frankly, they seem uninteresting. But yes, I know that the first people who received it got it a year or so after it was created.

Pat [00:15:13] Okay. And here we are. April 1862.

Ben [00:15:16] Yes. So there is a federal commander for for the North in the American Civil War. His name is Ormsby Mitchell, which is a really fun name. He is trying to capture Chattanooga, Tennessee. He is moving south through Tennessee in the western campaign of the Civil War. The problem, however, is that Chattanooga is a pretty short train ride away from a couple hundred thousand confederates in Atlanta, which is one of the main Confederate staging areas, mean Confederate bases, and any attempt to capture Chattanooga was going to be difficult because the Confederates were going to be able to ferry tons of reinforcements very quickly along the rail lines. And if you, as Ormsby Marshall wanted to take Chattanooga, you're really going to have to cut off train access from Atlanta. So he does a little bit of out-of-the-box thinking and decides that what he wants to do is commission a crazy spy sabotage mission to infiltrate beyond enemy lines and blow up the rail lines in Confederate territory.

Pat [00:16:24] Ooh. So cut off. Cut off their supply lines.

Ben [00:16:27] Yes. Yes. Railroads were much faster travel than horses and using the roads and stuff. And really vital.

Pat [00:16:35] Anything else?

Ben [00:16:36] Yes, exactly. Really vital, too, to moving men and equipment and ammunition in the Civil War.

Pat [00:16:43] So this is not just out of the box thinking it's out of the boxcar thinking.

Ben [00:16:47] I see what you did there.

Pat [00:16:49] I'll be here all week.

Ben [00:16:52] Well, he needs volunteers for this crazy mission that he's coming up with. And one of the people who volunteer for it is a guy named John Alfred Wilson. John Alfred Wilson is a he's 29. He is a private, which is just kind of a rifleman from the 21st Ohio Infantry Regiment. He's kind of he looks like what you would picture when you picture a union soldier in the Civil War. He's kind of depicted with or can be had and he's got the facial hair that you would expect for a soldier from this time period. The photos of him and there are photographs of him. They're all, you know, that sepia tone, old style, when the camera shutter speed was so slow that you couldn't smile for pictures. So he's kind of got this very serious look on his face. And, you know, it kind of looks like the photos of him kind of look like, you know, when you see pictures in like ghost movies, you know, that kind of thing. So he decides he's got. Owing to they. The federal High command wants two dozen people to volunteer for this mission. And he does. He signs up alongside another man from his regiment, a guy named Mark Wood. And they put on civilian clothes. They cross the border into Tennessee and they spend four days traveling on foot through enemy controlled territory dressed as civilians. They are looking to get to the town of Marietta, Georgia, where they will link up with 18 other union spies at a train station. And their plan is that they are going to steal a train, ride it from Marietta up to Chattanooga, and wreak havoc on the train lines the entire way. To the best of their ability.

Pat [00:18:33] Whew. That's quite a plan.

Ben [00:18:36] Yeah, that's very daring. And, you know, like you said outside the boxcar there, they are known as Andrew's Raiders because their commander was a guy named James Andrews. They are traveling, you know, in groups of two. There's 20 of them total, and they're carrying their six shooters under their coats. But they are, you know, that's it. They're trying to blend in. So all they have is their their hands. They all board a train called the General at Marietta Station in Georgia. And their plan is to steal this train. And so this is, you know, 1862, the train starts to leave from Marietta, Georgia. They travel for a few hours and they, of course, stop for lunch because this is before dining cars. And this is just it seems like a very free lunch. Yeah, it's a very 1862 thing to do. You you drive a little bit and then you stop. You get out. There's there was a little hotel there that had a cafe. The conductors and the people on the train, they can sit on the train or they can get off and have a little bit of have a little bit of coffee and eat some breakfast. So they're outside Kennesaw and everybody gets off. And these 20 traders, including Alfred Wilson, they get back on the train, they storm the engine, they commandeer the train at gunpoint and they take off with it and just kind of jack the train and start heading up towards Chattanooga. And for the next several hours, they are trying to destroy the train line to cut off the access for the Confederates to bring troops from Atlanta to Chattanooga. They are pulling up. I mean, their equipment is limited. They didn't smuggle explosives in here and they didn't acquire any explosives. So their ability to destroy the train lines are not great. James Andrews at some point acquired a crowbar and was trying to use that to like, manually peel up railroad ties. They were cutting telegraph lines to prevent communications, but the best way they could think to do that was to just jump up and grab on to the telephone poles and swing on them like a Tarzan or something and break them that way or or cut him with it.

Pat [00:20:46] That would work.

Ben [00:20:47] Yeah. Cut the lines with the knife. They're kind of doing everything they can to destroy this this rail line. They're not particularly equipped. This isn't like a, you know, a U.S. Army Engineers Corps with, like, bombs and, you know, TNT and all that stuff. They're doing the best they can.

Pat [00:21:02] And they were undercover. So they can't really publicly walk around with a big truck of explosives.

Ben [00:21:08] Right. Exactly. So they were able to smuggle guns on like pistols on board, and that was it. And so now they're riding up to Chattanooga and they're there. They're executing their mission. They are, you know, like you said, dressed as civilians. And they are just smashing and destroying and and kind of demoing the railroad lines to the best of their ability.

Pat [00:21:27] Yeah. And the fact that they're in civilian clothing and destroying stuff, sabotaging stuff behind enemy lines makes things particularly risky because at this point, you were supposed to treat a prisoners of war in a certain way, but you could execute spies. And if you see someone dressed not in a uniform, but in civilian clothing, i.e. in disguise, and if you see them sabotaging your stuff, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know, the Confederates, if they capture these guys, they're going to think they're spies, which they kind of are, and they could very easily just decide to hang them.

Ben [00:22:09] Yes. And that is like not you know, like you said, you are supposed to treat prisoners of war a certain way, but spies are exempted from the, you know, the rules of of war. Yeah. Especially at this time. So this dangerous and what they're doing is dangerous and it's risky. They are doing okay at it. And and this is where a big wrinkle comes in to the Andrews Raiders plan, because the conductor of the general is a guy named William Allen Fuller. Fuller is a he's from Georgia. He is not a soldier. He is a trained conductor by trade and has been doing this for a long time. He's got a big mustache. He is like a kind of a hard Georgia guy, and he does not like getting train jacked, especially by a bunch of Yankees. He decides he's mad when he sees the train pull off and this guy is like, he's not going to lose this train. So Fuller, you know, was out there eating breakfast. The train starts running the way he's running after it on foot for a while. And then he eventually transfers over to one of those little pushcart things you see from Lake Wylie Coyote would use to go down the tracks with, like, the you know, the it looks like a seesaw, but you just kind of cranking yourself. He hops on one of those things and is like the trailer, the locomotive. He spends the next 51 hours pursuing the general either on foot or by the hand car. And he eventually, like, gets to another station on this hand car, and he commandeers another train that was heading south and puts it on the northbound track and runs it backwards because he doesn't have time to turn the train around. The union guys are heading north. He found a train that was heading south. He found a few stragglers who happened to be from the first Georgia Infantry Regiment. They were just some guys that were hanging out. They were like big whacked out there. And he's like, You guys get on the train, we're going to drive backwards. He's kind of looking out, looking out the side of the train, going the wrong direction on the northbound track. He's very determined to get his train back and he is gaining on John, Alfred Wilson and Andrews Raiders because they are having to stop to destroy things they don't actually know. They're being pursued. They suspect it. They suspect that telegraph exists at this time period. They expect that, you know, maybe.

Pat [00:24:28] The word got around.

Ben [00:24:29] It. Yeah, well, it's getting around. They know they're probably being pursued. They don't quite know the extent to which that is happening. They're kind of destroying things and trying to like, you know, you know, especially at like bridge crossings, trying to do their best to block people from coming after them. But Fuller is on the move and he is not deterred by any of the stuff that they've been doing to destroy the tracks. So he at some point, Andrews Raiders, they see the train coming towards them. They see this train moving backwards towards them and they're like, Oh, no, like this guy's coming for us. So they detach the last car of the locomotive, the union soldiers detach the last train car and just kind of leave it in the track to block Fuller from pursuing them. And Fuller just smashes it with his train goes faster. He's in reverse. Kind of like a demolition derby. And he smashes into that detached train car. It burst into flames, according to some versions of the story. But he goes right through it. Wow. Yeah. Knocks it off the track, keeps going and catches up to the train. I mean, the other thing to mention here is that Andrew's Raiders are not like one guy knew how to drive the train. But they're not train guys. They're not professional engineers.

Pat [00:25:46] Yeah, they're messing things up, guys.

Ben [00:25:49] Yeah, They're there to cause havoc and be agents of chaos. They're not experienced locomotive drivers. You know, Fuller is. And he is not going to be deterred. And he goes faster than them and he catches them. And those guys from the first Georgia, they have rifles and they're opening fire on the locomotive. So our friend John offered Wilson, him and Mark, would they jump off the moving train to kind of escape what's happening here? And they take off into the woods. Some of the first Georgia guys are shooting at them as they run into the forest and now they're on the run and their adventure is kind of just beginning. So we have to think about these guys. They're dressed in civilian clothes. They've got six shooters on them that in the time of the Civil War, it's not like a Clint Eastwood movie. You don't just pop six new bullets in. There is not it's not an easy thing to reload one of those things. So you kind of have six shots for the foreseeable future.

Pat [00:26:40] Yeah.

Ben [00:26:41] And they're being pursued by everything from like Confederate soldiers to like civilians, like angry civilians, to like hunting dogs. Like everybody's looking for these union guys, these spies and saboteurs who were wreaking so much havoc and causing all this chaos.

Pat [00:26:56] Mm hmm.

Ben [00:26:58] Alfred Wilson and Mark Wood, they they're running through the forest, and they get into what Wilson very funnily refers to as a ticklish situation, which.

Pat [00:27:07] Is understatement of the year.

Ben [00:27:09] Right. Yeah. That's his term for being apprehended by Confederate Cavalry and having the commander tell him that we don't take prisoners, we execute them. But he escapes that somehow he captures a boat and takes it 50 miles down the Tennessee River, eventually making it to union lines or very close to union lines. He bluffs a group of Confederate scouts into thinking that he was just like, you know, a civilian.

Pat [00:27:35] Good work.

Ben [00:27:35] Yeah. And he makes it back to union lines in Stevenson, Alabama. So, you know, on foot by boat, bluffing his way out of cavalry, capture multiple times. He makes it to Stevenson, Alabama, and union lines. Except turns out Stevenson, Alabama, had been retaken by the Confederacy a couple of weeks earlier, and he didn't realize that. And so when he walks into Stevenson, Alabama, it's a Confederate stronghold now and he's captured.

Pat [00:28:02] Yeah, because even though you have telegraphs, not everyone gets all the memos all the time.

Ben [00:28:07] Yes. Yes.

Pat [00:28:08] So awkward.

Ben [00:28:10] So, yeah, 51 hours on the train and 36 running through running through the forest until he is he is captured because he didn't have the good intelligence or good information on what was going on in Stevenson, Alabama. So they're captured on site. It turns out they were actually seven miles from from friendly lines. So they were really close. But they didn't they didn't get there. They are brought before the Confederate commander in the sector, a guy named General Ledbetter. And he says, you know, we're going to hang you as spies. You know, I'm sorry, you're going to be hung and we're going to throw you into an unmarked grave. And Wilson is pretty bad as dude, and we're going to see more pissed soon. But his response to being told that he's going to be hung as a spy, it's kind of like the sort of response you'd see in an old cowboy movie. He says, quote, Hang me and be damned. But I tell you one thing to remember If you ever do come across one of our men and hang him, look out that sooner or later your own neck don't pay the penalty because this hanging business will be quite common about the time this rebellion closes up.

Pat [00:29:10] Wow. Which I love. Yeah.

Ben [00:29:12] I mean, if that was his last words, he would be badass. It's not. Ledbetter doesn't like it, but he does taken prisoner. He doesn't hang him on the spot. He throws them in, too. He takes them down to Chattanooga, the town they were planning on attacking. He's dragged through the streets in chains, and he is thrown into a horrible prison that is known among the prisoners as the whole.

Pat [00:29:34] Yeah, and this is pretty awful. Being a prisoner of war in the Civil War did not mean that you were actually safe in any useful definition of the word. No one expected the war to go on as long as it did, So they didn't really invest in what we would consider adequate prison facilities, and most prisons were actually just giant, overcrowded messes like the hole. And you didn't have bathrooms, you didn't have reliable food, you didn't have reliable medical care. And two of the most notorious prison for the war were like this Andersonville in the South. And there the situation was so bad, the warden ended up being hanged for war crimes. And in the north you have Elmira, where prisoners had to camp outside in the snow in the middle of the New York winter and about 12 to 15% of all civil war P.O.W.s ended up dying in captivity. That's like one out of every eight or maybe even one out of every six.

Ben [00:30:34] Yeah, really rough situations for prisoners in the Civil War. And you know, the union spies in the hole in Chattanooga were not. We're on the lower end of the survivability spectrum when we are talking about prisoner of war treatment during the Civil War. So Wilson is thrown into the hole and he's thrown in there with the bunch of his other guys. So the rest of the guys from the from the great locomotive chase had already been captured and they were all kind of there waiting for him. There were 22 prisoners. They were 20 guys, 20 of the Raiders, plus two other spies who had been captured that were on their way to Marietta to be part of the locomotive chase. They didn't actually get on board the locomotive. They got captured before they got there. So 22 union prisoners, they spend five months in a 13 by 13 foot unventilated unlit dirt room in the basement of an old building in the stifling, suffocating, airless heat of the Tennessee summer. 22 guys in a 13 by 13 room for five months. Yeah, their chains were never removed, their clothes became infested with lice. Their food was was mostly spoiled, just cornmeal and rancid meat. And they figured that they their lives couldn't possibly get any worse. And maybe they were right. But things do get the situation does get worse for John Alfred Wilson because eight of those raiders do end up getting hung as spies, including Andrews, the commander. So after five months in the hole, Wilson is transferred to a different prison. He ends up going to Fulton County Prison in Atlanta, which is a much better situation for him. A big improvement over the whole in Chattanooga. He and the 13 remaining prisoners, though, like, you know, even though the conditions have improved 20%, they still know they got a they can't stick around if they want to. They want to get out of here alive. So, of.

Pat [00:32:32] Course.

Ben [00:32:33] Yeah. So they decide they're going to organize a prison break because they haven't had enough time being on the run. So they are going to break out of Fulton County Prison. That's their plan. And this is Atlanta. This is the heart of the Confederacy. This is the head. Orders for, you know, several high ranking generals, huge numbers of soldiers in the in the area. You know, this is this is a stronghold. This is a major strongpoint for the Confederate military. They make their plans in one night when the guard comes to drop off their food. The Raiders attack John Alfred Wilson has removed a brick from the wall of his cell. And when the guard comes in to drop up the food, Wilson hits him with the brick, takes his keys, starts opening up the cells. Now we have a prison break in the middle of Confederate controlled Atlanta. Wilson has to fight his way out of the prison. He fights these guys with a brick. He's fighting with his bare hands. He has an empty bottle of whiskey that he found in a barracks. He hit somebody with that. He in the Raiders, they bust out of the jail and they head off into town and they scatter in all different directions. And the alarms are going and people are shooting at them. And one shot hits so close to Wilson that the wooden wall splinters up next to him and he gets some splinters and some shrapnel in his leg. But they're scattering and it's chaos. There's alarms, Everybody's screaming and yelling. And Wilson takes off. He ends up again with his friend Mark Wood, who has gone through this entire ordeal with him. And they start running through the woods, wild dogs and guys with guns. And like I said, even some civilians are chasing them and they they run and they make their way through the woods. They don't really know where they are. They don't know the geography of Georgia that well, But they're going to run for it. And they eventually make it to the Chattahoochee River. They decide like, you know, they're at the river. You know, they're being pursued, but they decide something really interesting. They decide that rather than getting on the river and trying to go north, they are going to take a boat, They steal somebody's boat and they are going to they decide they're going to go south. They're going to go towards Florida.

Pat [00:34:44] And it sounds counterintuitive. Shouldn't they be heading towards the union? But it actually is really smart because they're heading towards water. They're heading towards open water and the union has a blockade all over the place. So they're going to have union boats all around. So all our guys have to do is get to open water and take advantage of that. And the union blockade was a huge reason for the Union victory. They were starving out the Confederacy. They were blocking their supply lines. They were blocking international trade with England and other places. So, yeah, it actually was a good idea to go south.

Ben [00:35:23] Yeah, and it does pay off for them. We will see. So they cross roughly 300 miles in the next 30 days. So they're sailing downstream on a stolen boat for a month. They're living off the land. Like I said, they have no weapons or for food they definitely didn't like. They got a brick and an empty bottle of whiskey and this boat that they stole. And they're going downstream in Georgia and Florida. They're scavenging farmland at night. They'll like, you know, pull the boat up on shore and try to sneak in to see if there's anybody living nearby and try to steal food from them. They're doing whatever they can. They start seeing alligators which scare them. So they way they have to fight off the alligators is by hitting them with the the oars and the paddles. At one point, I love the story of it. At one point, a dolphin popped its head up out of the water. And neither of these guys had ever seen a dolphin before or knew what it was. So they just frickin hit that thing to with the paddle.

Pat [00:36:16] Probably knew it was just a funny looking alligator.

Ben [00:36:18] Yeah, who knows? I don't know what to say. I think. I think if a dolphin popped its head up out of the water next to my little rowboat and I didn't know what it was, I'd probably want to hit it to you.

Pat [00:36:26] Yeah.

Ben [00:36:28] Yeah. Big mammal hit it. Yes. Yeah. And so they're after 30 days, they're half dead. They're sunburns, they're covered in mosquito bites, they've got scurvy, they've got yellow fever, they're starving. But they finally reach the mouth of the Chattahoochee River. And in the distance, they see the federal blockade, the union ships that are preventing all Confederate shipping from getting in or out of the Confederacy. And so they they have to take they have to make a canoe by the time they get here, because at some point during their adventure, their stolen boat was stolen from them while they were sleeping.

Pat [00:37:06] What goes around comes around.

Ben [00:37:07] Yeah, exactly. And so they had to make a boat from, you know, basically just like Bear Grylls and get. Right.

Pat [00:37:13] Yeah.

Ben [00:37:13] Yeah. I'm picturing just like a homemade raft or a canoe or something. And. And they have to take that out on open water and out on the high seas and they get picked up by a federal gunboat on November 10th, 1862.

Pat [00:37:26] So this whole adventure is taking about half a year.

Ben [00:37:29] Yes. So it's a long time. It was supposed to be, you know, a pretty short little sabotage mission. They left in April 1862 and now it's mid-November. And they have finally, like, survived this ordeal and been picked up by this union gunboat crew. They were the only of the prisoners that were being held in Fulton County Prison. Eight of them escaped, made it out, weren't recaptured immediately inside Atlanta. And of those eight, Wood and Wilson were the only two who didn't get recaptured. Everybody else was recaptured trying to make it back to union lines. They all went north, which was what the Confederates would expect them to do. And they were all grabbed. Yeah, nobody else was hanged. So they all or all of the others who were captured ended up surviving the war or at least surviving this part of it. And Alfred Wilson and Mark Wood, they end up on this union gunboat that sails to Jamaica and a couple other cool places in the Caribbean. And eventually he is returned to Washington, D.C., safe and sound and is promptly imprisoned for violating a mandatory curfew that he didn't know existed. Oh, no. He's still in civilian clothes in L.A. and you're not supposed to be out at night. So he's he's thrown in jail overnight. And then the story.

Pat [00:38:45] Of his life.

Ben [00:38:46] Yes. And the next day he meets Abraham Lincoln. Yes. They find out who he was and he meets Lincoln. And he's personally presented with the first ever batch of Medals of Honor for his service to the U.S. Army.

Pat [00:38:59] Congratulations.

Ben [00:39:00] Yes. So he isn't the a guy named Jacob Parrott, who was one of the Raiders who survived the whole is credited as the first guy to receive a medal of Honor. The original presentation of these was on March 25th, 1863. Most of the Raiders were eventually returned to union lines via prisoner transfers or prisoner exchanges. So the Andrews Raiders eventually all made it back to the union lines. And this guy, Jacob Parrott, had had like the hardest time of it in prison. And he all of the guys that were part of this crew decided that it should be the first guy to receive the Medal of Honor. He had kind of taken a couple of beatings in prison and had had a really hard time of it. But he lived and he got the first Medal of Honor. John Alford Wilson gets his several months after the rest of Andrews Raiders because he was missing, presumed dead and didn't get his, you know, the actions for which he received the Medal of Honor were at the same time as Andrews Raiders. But he wasn't present to receive his medal until several months after everybody else got theirs. But, you know, you get the idea. I like you're talking about Wilson because his story is, for me, one of the more interesting ones. And yes, it is also because he he wrote it down. He wrote down his autobiography. It's called He Yeah, The Adventures of Alpha Wilson. A thrilling episode of The Dark Days of the Rebellion is what it's called. And it's it's great. It's really funny. And I mean, he's not the right word. It's great. It's really good and and exciting. And it reads like an adventure story. And, you know, it's definitely worth a read. John Alfred Wilson later rejoins his old unit in Ohio. He survives the war. He gets married. He writes his memoirs, and he lives to be 72 years old. And he is among the first recipients of the U.S. Medal of Honor.

Pat [00:40:51] Yeah. Quite a story.

Ben [00:40:52] Yeah, The great locomotive chase. It's the succeeding is as the silent movie is referenced earlier, I think.

Pat [00:40:58] Yeah. And actually, I was thinking about it. There is a silent movie about the Great Locomotive chase starring Buster Keaton, and it's called The General. Oh, and it's named after the.

Ben [00:41:07] The train. Yeah.

Pat [00:41:08] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, It's from 1926.

Ben [00:41:12] Wow. Really early. Yeah. Awesome. So that's that. And if you you know, if you want more details, you can watch the silent movie. I'm sure it's extremely historically accurate. Yes.

Pat [00:41:23] Or you could read Alf Wilson's memoirs.

Ben [00:41:25] Which I definitely recommend you should do. It's very. It's very good. And so then when we come back, we are going to talk about the first woman to ever receive the Medal of Honor. So stick with us And we will be right back.

Pat [00:41:48] Lieutenant Colonel W.W. Blackford of the first Virginia Cavalry describes the situation as follows. Quote, Tables about breast high had been erected upon which the screaming victims were having legs and arms cut off. The surgeons and their assistants, stripped to the waist and bar spattered with blood, stood around, some holding the poor fellows, while others armed with long bloody knives and saws, cut and sawed away with frightful rapidity, throwing the mangled limbs on a pile nearby as soon as removed. So that's the situation I want you to keep in mind when we talk about Mary Edwards Walker. This is the state of battlefield surgery in the Civil War. So imagine artillery shells detonating. Imagine musket tree rattling nonstop in the distance. And this is all over the groans and agonizing cries of men who are dying. And while that's going on, you still get flood after flood of new arrivals into the, quote unquote, hospital. But this is a frontline field hospital, so it's actually just an ordinary single family home that got converted, got commandeered. The driveway is lined with horse drawn ambulance carts full of trauma victims. And the, quote, emergency room is barely worthy of the name. You've got this just house being used as an emergency room, an operating room, and even a morgue. And we're on the outskirts of Chattanooga, Tennessee. And the hospitals, overworked, exhausted nurses. They're trying to triage the wounded between those who are possibly treatable and those who weren't going to make it. So that's in Chattanooga, outside the city walls. The Union Army is pushing back to Chattanooga. They had been totally swamped at Chickamauga, and they're trying their very best to hold the city against this ferocious Confederate counterattack. And 46,000 men of Braxton Bragg's Army of Tennessee are on the heights. They're overlooking the critical Strategic rail and communications center. And we know from the story of the great locomotive chase how important those are. The union forces are backed up against the Tennessee River. And now we've got an assault led by General George Thomas marching up a steep ridge right into enemy positions. We've got 112 cannons. There's murderous fire. And we're trying trying to break out of the siege. And, of course, soldiers get wounded and those who were lucky enough to find their way back to friendly lines, find themselves here in this little converted home. And now it is unsterilized. A lot of the men have malaria. The surgeons are using saws. And in some ways, the only comfort was a cup of cold water and the nurses trying their best to just say soothing things to them and ease their pain, suffering in some small way. These nurses were doing a very important job and there were over 10,000 women working as nurses in field hospitals across the war zone in the Civil War. But Mary Edwards Walker of the 52nd Ohio Volunteer Infantry, was the only one who served as a surgeon. She's also the only woman in history ever to receive the Medal of Honor. So she was maybe 150 years ahead of her time. She was routinely criticized by both women and men for her desire to wear, quote unquote, men's clothing, which meant pants because they were practical.

Ben [00:45:35] You don't want to do battlefield surgery in a big hoop skirt. Why?

Pat [00:45:40] Why not? So, yeah. And she paid her own way through Syracuse Medical College in 1855, becoming just the second woman in American history to complete official physician training and work actually, as an official doctor. And when the Civil War broke out in 1861, Walker. Excuse me, Dr. Walker had already been running her own private practice for six years. You know, she's looking at the situation like, oh, there's a war going on. There are only 86 licensed surgeons in the Union Army at the start of hostilities. So she tries to sign up and offer her services. She was turned away by every recruiting officer she approached. So she found another way. Dr. Walker signed on as a volunteer nurse, and she worked on the front lines at the first Battle of Bull Run. And then later that year, as an unpaid volunteer surgeon at Indiana Hospital.

Ben [00:46:34] Yeah. And like you said, there was it was pretty common for there to be women nurses, especially even on the battlefield. Right. Even if it was just to, like, bring cold water and ice to, like, wounded men or or. To identify people for the stretcher teams to come pick up. That was very common. But surgeons, a woman surgeon, the only one I know of is is Dr. Walker.

Pat [00:46:59] Yeah. So her M.O. is I'll just show up where her people are dying and see if maybe I can fix them for free. She volunteers at the Battle of Fredericksburg in 1862. She's performing frontline operations, and she took control of a medical train that was ferrying wounded men back to Washington. And her skills at surgery were so good and her reputation was so good. Word got around. And Union General Ambrose Burnside heard about this. He nominated her for a commission. And. Okay. At first, Dr. Walker met with the usual resistance. Like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same old, same old, same old. But thanks to General Burnside's recommendation, she finally was commissioned as an assistant surgeon in the 52nd Ohio Volunteer Infantry. She was issued a US Army surgeon's uniform, and she was sent to Tennessee to help treat wounded and dying men during the siege of Chattanooga as a surgeon rather than just a nurse. Now, what did the job of a Civil War surgeon actually entail?

Ben [00:48:11] So like we said, with with nurses, it's a lot of triage, make tourniquets, clean wounds, change dressings, things like that. But for a surgeon, it is very intense work, kind of as we've been saying with the quote you mentioned at the beginning and some of the other things we've been talking about, there's brutal wounds that are happening to people during the Civil War. You have artillery canister, fire cannon balls. I mean, those are extremely damaging to the human body. And in a lot of cases, those kind of just kind of deal death rate. But the majority of the Civil War surgical cases were from gunshot wounds. The problem with this type of bullet is that it kind of mushrooms on impact and it is heavy and it hits hard. And so it breaks bones on impact, kind of shatters bones. And I mean, picture like a fluorescent light bulb being hit against a brick wall. Like, that's kind of what the mini ball does to the human femur. Well, perhaps that was too gruesome of a description, but that is how it works. So, I mean, this is that is how it works that we got to talk about. Yeah, you know, it it ruptures blood vessels and organs and all of these important things that people keep inside their skin. And in a lot of cases, the medical technology does not exist to effectively treat these wounds. So if you got shot in the bone with a mini ball, sometimes the only way to prevent and you're in this kind of situation and we've been describing these very bad hospitals situation is, you know, not a lot of sanitization happening, not sanitizing their tools, barely like it's like just throwing a little bit of water on the table between patients. There's a big risk of infection. And gangrene is a big problem at this time.

Pat [00:49:56] Yeah. Yeah.

Ben [00:49:57] You know, with a lot of these, you know, maybe they can dig the dig the ball out, but that that leg or that arm is not going to recover. The bones are broken beyond repair. And for some of these surgeons, the only option was to cut the appendage off. And you hear about this a lot, right, when they say that, you know, there's no organ transplants, there's no internal surgeries, there's no blood transfusions. And they say that if a soldier got hit in the head, Chester abdomen, he had a 90% chance of death. And you could just give him a little bit of morphine and water and a shady tree for him to sit under.

Pat [00:50:32] Is his last moment.

Ben [00:50:33] Fray and wounds to the arms and legs. You had better odds. Yeah, but three quarters of the operations being performed in these hospitals is amputation.

Pat [00:50:42] And if you got shot in one of your limbs, you had maybe about 48 hours to get that amputated with a hacksaw, which, remember, is unsterilized because people hadn't really figured out the whole sterilization thing yet. And you're as the doctor, you're working in whatever conditions you're in, which might be the kitchen counter of some a family's home. And so standard procedure was that if you were a good surgeon, you could perform this operation in under 10 minutes and you'd do it dozens of times in a row, bam, bam, bam, And all while the city is being pounded with artillery shells and stray bullets. And one nurse at the Battle of Antietam recalled working on a guy in the hospital, a tent, and then having a stray bullet pass through the tent and through the sleeve of her dress and then kills a patient right in front of her, which may have been a more humane way to go. It was a pretty grim situation. About 25% of people who underwent amputation surgery ended up dying from infected wounds. And amidst all this chaos, Dr. Mary Edwards. Walker continues to save human lives, and it's under hellish conditions, and the techniques are kind of barbaric. But she does her best, and she just keeps working as a front line surgeon throughout the three day battle of Chattanooga. So she's on a trip to Georgia to aid sick and injured civilians. She was ambushed by Confederate pickets and they found her in her union uniform. She was carrying two pistols. They arrested her as a spy. And this is a detail that may or may not actually have been true. We can't prove it either way. But her captors noted in their report that she argued, quote, enough for a regiment of men. They recommended sending her to a lunatic asylum for being a woman doctor, because, of course, that's the craziest thing anyone could imagine. And but instead, she was sent to Richmond and thrown into a jail for federal prisoners of war. She spent four months in the prisoner of war camp. You can imagine what that was like. She was then sent back to Yankee Lines as part of a prisoner exchange, and she she was traded for a male Confederate surgeon. And she confessed later that she was very proud of that trade and gave her the credit, recognized her as a battlefield surgeon.

Ben [00:53:12] There you go. Right. And I think that, again, I think that surgeon was a colonel or something to say That's not bad.

Pat [00:53:16] Yeah. So she was sent back to the Union Army and she was attached to General Sherman's army during the Atlanta campaign, after the Battle of Atlanta. She was appointed chief surgeon at a women's military prison in Louisville, Kentucky. And there she served until the end of the war. After her service, she collected a well-deserved Army pension. She wrote a couple of books. She became a women's suffrage activist and got arrested a couple of times for wearing pants instead of a dress.

Ben [00:53:46] Yeah. And one thing I do want to mention with Mary Edwards, Walker, is that we have spent a lot of time talking about, like the gruesome details of Civil War battlefields, surgery. But Mary Edwards, Walker did not perform amputations. She didn't like it. She thought it was barbaric and medieval. And she was really against the practice. So she would do what she could to help people. And she was performing some surgeries, but she was really opposed to these kind of hold the guy down and amputate his arm with the saw thing. So she you know, there weren't a lot of other options available at the time, but she did a lot of work to try to come up with some new strategies, some new ways to treat patients, because she just thought that this was was too brutal. And to and like I said, you know, medieval. And so I think that that is an interesting detail about her. She was you said before her time. And I think that there's a lot of truth to that because she was really interested in trying to find a better way of dealing with with these these types of injuries.

Pat [00:54:52] Yeah. During her time in the Union Army Doctor Mary Edwards, Walker had been recommended for promotion both by General George Henry Thomas and also by General William Tecumseh Sherman. But she was not technically a uniformed service member, and so these requests for promotion could not be granted. But but she did receive recognition. She was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor in 1866. And over the years, over the decades, there have been 1.8 million women who have served in the U.S. military. She's the only one to ever receive this award. And when the federal government changed the guidelines for the Medal of Honor in 1917, they actually tried to go back on this and, you know, and get from her. They restricted the Medal of Honor by stipulating that it could only be awarded for actions that occurred in combat. And that's why retroactively about 900 people got theirs taken away from them. And that included Doctor Walker. And she didn't stand for this. She just told me to go get bent. And.

Ben [00:56:05] You know, I'm not giving you.

Pat [00:56:07] Quite those words, but, you know, that attitude of, you know, this is not you know, she wore the medal until her death in 1919, and it was actually officially reinstated by order of President Jimmy Carter in 1977.

Ben [00:56:24] So even though it had been revoked for 60 years, it's no longer revoked. And she is the only woman in U.S. history to receive the Medal of Honor.

Pat [00:56:35] Yeah. Yeah. So that's our three Medal of Honor, American Heroes for today's episode.

Ben [00:56:42] Yeah. So three really good stories, American heroes, Medal of Honor recipients. Just kind of a very patriotic 4th of July stuff happening on the show today. And we are going to well, we have some something interesting planned for the next couple of episodes, because the next two episodes for the rest of, you know, for the next two weeks in July, we are going to talk about some I don't know how should we say this less fondly remembered American badasses. As Americans, but perhaps not quite as patriotic as as the three we talked about today. So, yeah, I think we're going to leave it with that. And thank you guys so much for listening. And we are going to see you next week with another one.

Pat [00:57:32] Badass of the Week is an iHeart radio podcast produced by High Five Content. Executive producers are Andrew Jacobs, Pat Larash, and Ben Thompson. Writing is by Pat and Ben. Story editing is by Ian Jacobs, Brandon Fibbs and Ali Lemer. Mixing and music and Sound Design is by Jude Brewer. Consulting by Michael May. Special thanks to Noel Brown at iHeart. Badass of the Week is based on the website BadassoftheWeek.com, where you can read all sorts of stories about other badasses. If you want to reach out with questions or ideas, you can email us at badasspodcast@badassoftheweek.com. If you like the podcast, subscribe, follow, listen and tell your friends and your enemies if you want, as we'll be back next week with another one. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

 
 
 

Julia Agrippina and Locusta the Poisoner

 
 

Julia Agrippina--daughter of a great Roman general, and, variously, sister, wife, niece, great-granddaughter, and now mother of the emperor, Julia Agrippina Augusta herself--draws a shabby cloak around her head. An assistant furtively shows her in to the quote-un-quote “kitchen.”

A woman looks up from an array of herbs, mushrooms, and ominous-looking bottles. And also a dead rat.

“Mistress Julia.”

“Locusta, I need to...discreetly get rid of certain persons. Who might be trying to get rid of me in turn..”

Locusta smiles. “Let me check in the back”

Two of Imperial Rome's most infamous women come together for this episode, as Pat and Ben discuss Locusta the Poisoner -- perhaps the most prolific and deadliest assassin of the Ancient World -- and the woman who gave her the majority of her most notorious missions: Julia Agrippina. Caligula's sister. Nero's mom. If you like political intrigues, murder mystery, amateur botany, cutthroat diplomacy, and the idea of two women who never met a problem that couldn't be solved with a syringe of cyanide and a bag of Death Cap Mushrooms, then you really can't afford to miss this one.

Badass of the Week is an iHeart radio podcast produced by High Five Content. Executive producers are Andrew Jacobs, Pat Larash, and Ben Thompson. Writing is by Pat and Ben. Story editing is by Ian Jacobs, Brandon Fibbs and Ali Lemer. Mixing and music and Sound Design is by Jude Brewer. Consulting by Michael May. Special thanks to Noel Brown at iHeart. Badass of the Week is based on the website BadassoftheWeek.com, where you can read all sorts of stories about other badasses. If you want to reach out with questions or ideas, you can email us at badasspodcast@badassoftheweek.com. If you like the podcast, subscribe, follow, listen and tell your friends and your enemies if you want, as we'll be back next week with another one. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

 
 
 

Bruce Lee

 
 

We've all seen Enter the Dragon and Fists of Fury, but how well do we know the man behind those films? In this episode author Ben Thompson and Professor of History Dr. Patricia Larash discuss Bruce Lee, a man who was more than just a real-life martial arts badass, he was also a groundbreaking pioneer, who paved the way for the next generation of actors and changed action cinema forever.

Episode Transcript:

Hong Kong. 1958. The music plays as Li Jun Fan’s feet deftly move back and forth. The cha cha rhythm carries him and his partner across the dance floor. The small crowd cheers. He’s graceful and elegant. But there’s something they don’t know…

Tomorrow, his hands and feet will be lethal weapons, able to dispatch hordes of armed men with lighting quick maneuvers, and vicious punches that send challengers sprawling. One by one he’ll mercilessly crush his foes, battering them with his fists, feet, wooden sticks, even a pair of nunchucks.

Today, he’s about to be the Cha Cha Champion of Hong Kong. But tomorrow, he’ll be BRUCE. LEE.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Badass of the Week. My name is Ben Thompson and I am here, as always, with my co-hosts, Dr. Pat Larry Fat. Today we are. We're talking about kung fu movies. Do you have are you a kung fu movie fan or do you have a favorite kung fu movie?

Pat [00:01:16] I don't know if I have a favorite kung fu movie per say. I grew up with them in the background. You know, my sister and I would play Legos on the living room floor in front of the TV and my dad would have on, you know, random movies. And so I grew up with martial arts in the background, especially the Kung Fu series with David Carradine set in the Old West.

Ben [00:01:37] Oh, yeah. Which is great. Yeah. And the Legend continues. Which was from the nineties.

Pat [00:01:42] Yeah. And I was young and I thought that the kung fu movies were kind of funny. But I think I grew an appreciation for them because now, you know, I enjoy seeing Jackie Chan or Michelle Yeoh in a very well choreographed martial arts scene.

Ben [00:01:54] Yeah, like when I was just out of college, they used to have an on when I was living in Boston, actually when I was out on Comm AV in Boston, one of the theaters that was maybe like two or three stops away on the T would do midnight kung Fu movies. And so every Saturday night, I believe, yeah, at 12:00 they'd shoot near I guess it started at like 11. They'd show one or two kung fu movies. And that's how I was exposed to some like really kind of out there stuff from the seventies, like some old Hong Kong stuff. There was a movie called Taoism Drunkard, which is just like completely bonkers. There's like a woman who fights with her hair as a weapon and whoa, yeah, there's this little like a robot monster called the Watermelon Monster that, like, shocks you with, like, it's little electric hands. And it it's got like, a it basically looks like a big robot Pac-Man, and it tries to, like, bite you. Okay. Yeah, There was another one I liked. It was called The Return of the Five Deadly Venoms. And it was some Shore brothers thing where this bad guy shows up and kills the master of these five kung fu warriors, and he cripples all five of them in in different ways. He puts one's eyes out, he cuts one's leg off, he cuts one's arm off. He does these different things to prevent them from fighting again. But then they decide they're going to avenge their master and they have all these weird, like unique fighting styles because of the different ways in which they were mutilated by their enemy, which sounds really gruesome, but it's it's honestly, it's like kind of funny when you watch it.

Pat [00:03:27] And also, if you go into a martial arts movie, you pretty much expect that there's going to be some violent and gruesome content.

Ben [00:03:33] Yeah, we kind of are hoping for it, right? Yes. You know, like in the old days, it was you know, there's the style to these to this old Lakeshore Brothers style of seventies kung fu flick, you know, midnight movies kind of thing. But, you know, over the years, martial arts has just kind of begun to integrate into every aspect of action filmmaking, right? Captain America does martial arts now, and you've got John Wick and the Fast and Furious guys all know martial arts, even though they originally started as street racers. I don't know how that happened, but you know, the Jason Statham's, all these kinds of action movie heroes.

Pat [00:04:07] Yeah, You've got The Matrix.

Ben [00:04:09] Yeah.

Pat [00:04:09] Even in recent Star Trek series, Star Trek Discovery, which features Michelle Yeoh, you do have her using some martial arts moves to beat up bad guys.

Ben [00:04:19] Yeah, it's a big transition from Captain Kirk's open hand judo chop and double hammer fists to knock guys out. Right. The way that action has been filmed in in recent years is is very different from the way it was filmed back then. And we're going to talk about kind of the reason for that transition.

Pat [00:04:37] Yeah. Yeah.

Ben [00:04:38] Now, you know, I you know, as a historian, there's always kind of and a podcaster and a blogger and all of the things that I that I kind of do. You always kind of looking for significant dates with which to air your things. And I've generally kind of shied away from, from death anniversaries. I don't really like to celebrate death anniversaries because I always feel like it's a it's a little bit weird to talk about that.

Pat [00:05:03] Yeah. But sometimes sometimes that's what people do and think of it as a celebration of a completed life. Is that less grim? It's a milestone, and I'm a fan of classical music and there's often a way to look for any excuse to have a celebration. So are we celebrating? You know, one year we might be celebrating the 250th anniversary of Johann Sebastian Bach birth. And then some years later, we might be celebrating the 250th anniversary of his death. And it's really an excuse to or a pretext to celebrate their life and work.

Ben [00:05:40] Yeah, And that's that's kind of what we're going to do today. So it has been 50 years since the death of Bruce Lee, and he is a hero of mine. And you know, I am of film in. TV star that I really admire and I enjoy his work. And also it just so happens that he's buried two blocks from my house and I, I walk past his his gravesite. Most most days when I'm either going up to the store or taking the baby out for a walk. So I walk past the graveyard where he where he's buried. And when we were kind of preparing for this episode, you had told me to stop in and say hi, because I've never actually. I'd never actually gone to his grave before, even though I live there and I walk past it pretty much every day. It's inside of a cemetery and, you know, I don't.

Pat [00:06:31] Oh, yeah.

Ben [00:06:32] Yeah, yeah. Makes it a little. I'm not going to walk into the cemetery with the baby and, you know, look at that kind of stuff.

Pat [00:06:38] So, No, no. You know, you kind of need a reason to do that. Yeah, I guess I am. I'm not as fazed as much by the idea of going into a cemetery. Respectfully, of course.

Ben [00:06:48] Yeah, but I went and I paid respects for you, and thank you.

Pat [00:06:52] Yeah.

Ben [00:06:53] As for good, good luck on her on our podcast episode today. And yeah, and it's a very beautiful little spot they have for Bruce and Brandon Lee are buried together there. There always seems to be, from what I understand, at least there was when I went there. There always seem to be little flowers and tributes left behind, which is, which is very cool. So in memory of 50 years since the tragic and very early passing of Bruce Lee, we are going to talk about him and we are going to get started with that after this. In talking about Bruce Lee, I am reminded of a quote that he said and Bruce, we will see, was never shy. He was a little bit cocky and take that into account as I read this quote. But it's something that needs to be kept in mind when we talk about Bruce Lee. He says, quote, If I were to be completely realistic in my films, you would call me a violent bloody man. I would simply destroy my opponent by tearing his guts out. I wouldn't do it so artistically. So, you know, we see a lot of, you know, Blacklight posters of Bruce Lee, but who was he really? And, you know, is there there's a lot more going on here than just the the five real movies and the TV show that we have seen him on. And we're going to get into that. So he was born in the Hour of the Dragon, which apparently is 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. in the year of the Dragon, according to the Chinese zodiac set in 1940. He was born in San Francisco, but he grew up in Hong Kong. And his father was a pretty prolific actor in Hong Kong cinema. Bruce actually appeared in his first movie at three months because he was always kind of hanging around film sets. And by the time he was 18, he'd appeared in almost 20 films. I think his first speaking role was at the age of six, in one of one of his father's movies. So growing up in China, Bruce got it. Bruce was a bit of a troublemaker. So he got into he would get into fights and, you know, he was in these movies, but he wasn't a great student. And he he would kind of you know, he he liked to fight. He always liked to fight. And at some point, he'd gotten into a fight and he had beaten up a couple of kids from the neighborhood. And then they kind of jumped him back later and and beat him up pretty good. So he ended up studying Wing Chun Kung Fu from a guy named Yip Man, who is a big famous folk hero in China. There's a bunch of movies about him, although none of them are like very historically accurate. But he's like a he's a he's a folk hero in China. I think there's Donnie Yen has done like five different man movies now and and they're great, but they're kind of pretty out.

Pat [00:09:51] There Don't take them as historical documentation.

Ben [00:09:53] Yes it is the name of a character from history who was very good at kung fu and lived generally in the time period that those movies are representing him. But, you know, he they take a lot of creative license. Mm hmm. Anyway, so Bruce starts studying, fighting and kung fu, and he's got an aptitude for it. In 1958, at the age of 17, he becomes the Hong Kong boxing champion. He knocks out three fighters, all of them in the first round to win the title. And that same year, he also wins the Hong Kong Cha-Cha Dance competition.

Pat [00:10:31] Which, hey, he's got the moves.

Ben [00:10:32] He's got the moves, and there's a lot of stuff. So is his father was an actor, but his father had kind of come up in the Hong Kong Opera. And so there is always kind of a lot of crossover between, you know, martial arts and dancing and just being able to move your body athletically.

Pat [00:10:47] Yeah, Yeah.

Ben [00:10:48] I think these two things kind of go hand in hand. They always say that when NHL players are talking about their hockey careers, they start off in figure skating before they ever pick up a stick. Because it's good. You have to know how to skate before you can, you know, shoot a pass. Yeah.

Pat [00:11:04] Yeah.

Ben [00:11:05] Anyway, so he is in 1958, 1959. Bruce is kind of this young punk teenager kind of guy. He's, you know, he's doing fighting school and he is is doing dance competitions, but he's he's getting into some fights. There is. I saw one thing referencing that he had joined a street gang called the Tigers of Junction Street, another one saying that like he was fighting against various other street gangs. But in 1959, he gets in trouble because he he beats up the son of like a pretty powerful triad leader in Hong Kong.

Pat [00:11:38] And the Triads are Chinese organized crime syndicates.

Ben [00:11:41] Yeah, basically Chinese mafia. And yeah, beating up the son of a powerful guy in that realm is is not a great thing for you. And at one point, even one of the local like Hong Kong police officers that patrols the streets in Bruce's neighborhood went to his dad and was like, look, he's getting into fights with some bad people. He's getting into a lot of fights. He's hurting some of these other kids. If he gets into one more fight, I got to drag him in and arrest him. And that's going to put you know, that's going to put Bruce down some pretty bad roads.

Pat [00:12:15] Yes. Yeah. So he needs to skip town.

Ben [00:12:17] He needs to skip town. So his dad sends him first to San Francisco to go live with his sister and then eventually up to Seattle, where Bruce enrolls in the University of Washington. He's studying philosophy and drama. And I think it's it's funny to mention that he got a C in gymnastics, which seems like really? Yeah. Shows you like his commitment to, like, the school. I guess he was not a great student. I think he had, like, a 1.8 GPA. I read somewhere. Hey. But he was also working on his book at the time. He was writing a book about the philosophy of kung fu, and he was training students in martial arts. First he was doing it for free. It was just kind of his friends and people nearby that like, might have wanted some training in kung fu. But he is at the University of Washington and he is he's training students. He's having a little bit of a hard time making ends meet money wise because he's not charging any of his friends for lessons. And eventually his friends are kind of like, No, I do actually. You're awesome at this. Why don't you charge us money and we can pay you to do this so that, yeah, this is the thing you can do. Yeah. He says, Okay, okay. And so he opens a school that's called the Legion. Fang Kung Fu Institute. Yeah. And Legion Fang was his Chinese name.

Pat [00:13:28] And yeah, his family name, which we pronounce as Li, uses the same Chinese character as the last name of Jet Li, who spells it Ally. And even though the Americanized versions of their names are spelled differently, they're still using the same Chinese character, Li, which translates to plum or plum tree. Jet Li chose a different spelling of his name for his Americanized version because he didn't want to be associated with the Bruce Flirtation actors, which we'll talk about a little bit later. Actors who were trying to ride the wave of Bruce Lee fame. Yes. And would use creative versions of Bruce Lee's name even as their stage name.

Ben [00:14:11] We will we will get to them a little bit later as well. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, over the course of his career, Bruce is a is a teacher for his entire life. He's always training. I think he meets his wife while he's training people in this area here in the in Seattle. But throughout the course of his life, after he goes to Hollywood, even beyond, he's always a teacher and he ends up actually teaching some pretty big name American actors, martial arts, you know, Steve McQueen, James Garner, James Coburn, George Lazenby. They all take martial arts lessons from from Bruce Lee at various points during their careers to help them, you know, have a better stage presence and help them have some more interesting and better fights on screen, which is cool.

Pat [00:14:54] Yeah. So he was, among other things, a teacher and clearly a successful one. He opened kung fu schools in California. And believe it or not, this was controversial. So on the one hand, he had his friend saying, shut up and take our money. You know, let us give you money to teach us how to do kung fu. But some leaders in the Chinese-American community were upset at the fact that Bruce Lee was teaching kung fu, and this included some martial arts teachers in the Seattle area. And it wasn't the competition per se. It was more that they viewed kung fu as an important part of Chinese culture, and they thought that it should be taught only to people who were Chinese or of Chinese descent. So how did they settle this? Well, did they take him to court? No. They decided to have a kung fu off. And the other teachers, the the ones who thought teaching Chinese martial arts should be exclusively for Chinese students. They got together and they sent their best guy. Wang Jack.

Ben [00:15:56] MAN Yeah. So this is in 1964. And Bruce, I mean, we will see this, right? But Bruce is not does not take well to being challenged. Bruce has a little bit of an ego on him. He's got a little bit of arrogance to him, which is understandable because he is better than everybody that he encounters. Right? He doesn't get beat up ever again after after he starts training with it, man. And then he says, okay, yeah, you want to okay, well, we can do this kung fu off. I'm totally down for it. And so in 1964, him and Wang Jack, men are going to fight. I'm just going to give you Bruce Lee's personal accounting of what happens in this encounter. So we had talked about, I believe before we had talked about the Chevalier de son George and how the different schools were going to duel and have a battle to see which school was superior. And one young man is is older than Bruce Lee, and we're more trained and more experienced. He's a grand master. And Bruce Lee is kind of this up and coming, you know, 20 something punk kid who wants to teach martial arts and they're going to fight. And here's what Bruce said about this fight in an interview he gave to Black Belt magazine. I got into a fight in San Francisco with a kung fu cat, and after a brief encounter, the son of a bitch started to run. I chased him like a fool, kept punching him behind his head and back. Soon my fist began to swell from hitting his hard head. Great. Then I realized Wayne Chang was not too practical and began to alter my way of fighting. So long. Jackman goes on to train people who like MMA fighters who fight on the Ultimate Fighting Championship circuit. Yeah, but not only was Bruce Lee kind of disillusioned with the martial arts style because the Grandmaster he had defeated in like 3 minutes, he was also kind of mad at himself because he thought it should have taken less time to beat this guy up.

Pat [00:17:50] He's hard on himself. He's a perfectionist.

Ben [00:17:52] I mean, I think that's the only way to get to the level that he attained rate. He is extremely hard on himself. Yeah. And so he kind of gets really, really into training and also into the philosophy of martial arts. Hmm. Hmm. I don't know. Have you ever done any kind of martial arts taking, like, a martial arts class or anything like that?

Pat [00:18:12] No, I haven't, really. But you have been, right? Yeah.

Ben [00:18:14] Yeah. So I took martial arts for maybe ten years when I was in high school and college and stuff. So I have spent a lot of time with it. And, you know, it's not just about how to defend yourself If somebody tries to beat you up or how to beat up your enemies. There is a whole like philosophy of behind this. And and I think we do encounter this a little bit in ancient Greece, where there's some kind of combination of philosophy, art and sport, you know, kind of it's a mindset. And there's some really cool stuff that Bruce Lee comes up with here. So what he creates in 1965 is a martial art style called Jeet Kondo. Bruce is kind of ahead of his time in that he's studying anatomy and physics and philosophy and trying to put all of that into his fighting style. So judo is the the way of the intercepting fist. Bruce had kind of grown up doing Wing Chun and boxing, but what he wanted to do was he calls it the form of no form. He says that quote, I, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns or molds.

Pat [00:19:15] You have to adapt, right?

Ben [00:19:16] You have to adapt. And he says, you know, the idea is kind of one of the ways it's described is that not everybody can fit into a size 42 coat. So you can't have this very rigid rules on how to how the fighting style works. And here's how you fight and here's how you do it. And you do it exactly this way every single time. You know, you've got to get that coat tailored to fit you. And what Bruce wants to do is kind of take things from everywhere and let's see what works and see what doesn't work. Let's see what works for me versus what works for you. We got to be adaptable and open to new ideas and open to incorporating things that, you know, thinking outside the box, not just with you, you're fighting style, but also just in life to be adaptable. And and I think there's some really cool stuff with that.

Pat [00:20:01] Yeah, sounds like teaching, actually. Yes. You know, you have ways and philosophies and methods of teaching, but ultimately you have to find a way that works for the particular students in front of you in a particular moment.

Ben [00:20:14] Yeah, exactly. It's an it's an eclectic philosophy and eclectic as in like Capital E eclecticism, which is just like adaptability, right? What you know, there is no there is no schematic for how to do this. Don't you can't do it exactly like this every time. And it will always work. He gives a great interview and it's one that you'll see a lot if you do any kind of research on him or YouTubing on him or whatever. And he says, Be formless, shapeless, like water.

Speaker 3 [00:20:42] This is what it is. Okay. I said, empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put in the teapot, it becomes the teapot. The water can flow. It can crash the water, my friend.

Ben [00:21:11] And that was kind of the strategy he took towards fighting and towards training. He was extremely hardcore about working out in training from the very beginning. As far as training goes, Bruce Lee is kind of famous for having all of these crazy, weird, innovative, I guess, training regimens he would do. You know, we all do pushups, sit ups, that kind of thing, when we're trying to work out at home without any tools or anything. But he would do two finger push ups. Thumb and forefinger. And he could it was said he could do something on the order of 200 of those in a row. He would do some with like he would do one hand with his other hand behind his back. So just off the two fingers. Or he could do both thumbs. He would do pushups like that, you know, one arm chin ups. He would fill heavy bags with gravel so that he could punch and kick them and toughen up his knuckles and his feet. And also, because regular heavy bags were too light for him. And if you watch the videos of him punching these heavy bags and it's it gets a heavy bag, it's the kind of thing you see in like a boxing gym. And you watch you can watch a video of of a boxer punching a punching bag. Then you watch Bruce Lee. And the thing is flying all over the place. He was not a huge guy. He was super ripped, I mean, as you can tell, because he's always kind of shirtless in his movies. But it wasn't a very, like huge guy, like height and weight wise, but he would generate just unbelievable amounts of power that are kind of were kind of unprecedented. He had a his diet was generally raw blended hamburger meat which just yum. Yeah. Sounds awful.

Pat [00:22:49] Well, I guess I guess we can call it steak tartare or something like that or carpaccio.

Ben [00:22:54] They are.

Pat [00:22:55] Fans. There are fancy names for raw meat.

Ben [00:23:00] You don't sound convinced.

Pat [00:23:02] No, I'm not. But. But it worked for him.

Ben [00:23:05] Yes, it worked for him.

Pat [00:23:06] It worked for him.

Ben [00:23:07] He had an exercise called the Dragon Flag, where he would just lay on his back and like, he could lift his entire body up from, like, just his shoulder. And the back of his head would touch the ground and he'd grab on to something and he could lift the entire rest of his body up off, off the mat and hold it for seconds or minutes at a time. He liked to train his reflexes and his manual dexterity by throwing grains of rice up in the air and catching them with chopsticks. He was apparently extremely talented at doing this, and that might have been the inspiration for, you know, Mr. Miyagi catching the fly with chopsticks in The Karate Kid. Anyway, so he's off doing all of these things. He is training really hard. He is creating his own martial art. He's teaching it to people he's not supposed to be teaching it to. He's kind of a rebel. And in 1964, he gets the opportunity to demonstrate a lot of this stuff at the World Karate Championships in Long Beach, California. He goes up on stage and he demonstrates these two finger pushups and the dragon flag and his workout style. And he demonstrates a couple of other unique skills that he has.

Pat [00:24:08] Yeah, including the famous one inch punch. So imagine Bruce Lee standing in front of you, like very in front of you, very close in front of you. And you. Okay. I see you as if this applies to anyone. But a general member of the public shouldn't be doing this. You should be a trained martial arts person because it takes some stamina to be the recipient of this move from Bruce Lee. So you're standing there and Bruce Lee is standing in front of you. And behind you is a chair. And Bruce Lee extends his arm out and puts his hand there in the air very still right in front of your abs, right in front of your stomach. And he's perfectly still. And then something happens. He curls his fingers into a fist and then just thrusts it one inch into your gut. Bam, you go flying back six feet into the chair and that's the one inch punch. He's able to generate the energy from his legs and the way he stands and channel that into his fingers. It's called fudge in or explosive power. And back there you go, flying back into the chair.

Ben [00:25:28] And there's video of this. These guys like their martial arts, like experts. They're there for the World Karate championships. They're wearing their their G's and their black belts. And these guys get hit and they hit that chair and the chair slides across the floor or these dudes kind of hit the chair and bounce out and hit the ground like they don't land. Like if they don't land perfectly on it or if they're trying to, like, fight it too hard, they they hit the ground in. Yeah. And Bruce Lee gets up there and he does these demonstrations in front of a humongous audience of martial arts maniacs or people who are super into this stuff. He comes back in 67 and he does it again at a different World Karate Championship. He's got a move called The Unstoppable Punch, where he got the world champion Vic Moore, who is also a badass. He stands there and Bruce Lee stands six feet away from him and is like, BLOCK me before I punch you in the face. And he gets he's so fast. There's video of this, and I absolutely recommend that you watch it. Bruce covers six feet and gets his fist in this guy's face and the dude barely moves. The dude doesn't flinch until Bruce has already stopped with his fist an inch from this guy's face. And this is a world champion. He had just beaten up like all of the greatest fighters in the world. Vic Moore got annoyed and was like, Give me another try. And Bruce gave him six and he did the same thing every single time. And Vic Moore couldn't couldn't block it. Wow. And then he tried it with a bunch of other people's any other volunteers, and nobody could stop this. It was the unstoppable punch. And that's a Bruce Lee thing that he was famous for, just kind of showing up at the World Karate Championships in 64 and 66, not competing in them and then giving a demonstration that was just like, I'm the best one here, just so you know.

Pat [00:27:09] Yes.

Ben [00:27:10] Yes. He would do another trick later on where he would stand at the same thing six feet away from you. He'd tell you to put a quarter in your palm and hold your arm out as far like maximum extension of your hand and put the coin in the palm of your hand. And he would say, don't let me steal this quarter. Close your fist, close your hand before I take this quarter from you. Oh, lightning flash, you get your hand closed. He'd hold the quarter up and when you opened your fist you would see you had a penny in your hand.

Pat [00:27:39] Wow. Wow.

Ben [00:27:42] And so that's that's kind of what we're dealing with here. And his demonstrations at these karate tournaments, especially the one in 1964, end up being kind of a springboard for him to enter Hollywood and enter film because stories of this guy. Yeah, up until this point, he's kind of just basically famous in the martial arts world. But, you know, he's in California. Things are going well. Like he's kind of a celebrity. He's he's, you know, the best of the best at this. And Hollywood starts calling for him. And when we get back, we are going to get into the beginnings of Bruce Lee's film career. Okay. And welcome back. We are talking about Bruce Lee, who up until this point in the story has been kind of a martial arts celebrity. And he is about to become a international film and TV celebrity. So in 1966, season one of the Green Hornet comes out. The Green Hornet is a kind of a superhero type of show. The Green Hornet is a detective. And Bruce Lee, all of his success with the demonstrations he's put on at these Long Beach International karate tournaments. They get him a role as Kato, who is the chauffeur for the Green Hornet, kind of like the Robin to the Green Hornet's Batman. And I use that analogy because it's by the same producers. So the guys who created Green Hornet were also the guys who created the Adam West Batman show. So kind of the iconic moment from this that kind of introduced Bruce Lee to the world is there's a bit where Kato, there's a light hanging from the ceiling and Bruce Lee as Kato enters and he does a jumping front kick and breaks the light with his foot. That at the time was pretty mind blowing. We're a little bit desensitized to seeing really bad ass martial arts in movies. We've seen Jason Statham movies, we've seen The Matrix, we've seen stuff like that. But at the time, 1966, this show was on prime time TV back to back with Adam West's Batman. So if you think about the fights in that series, the the POW thwack zap, you know, guys wrestling around, You mentioned Star Trek. This is like Captain Kirk time period with the double hand hammer fists and the open hand karate chop. And you know what's in the movies right now. Thunderball, Goldfinger. Like that time period, the James Bond stuff, which he wasn't doing a whole lot of martial arts. I mean, I'd wager that probably the most badass fight sequence in television or film history up until this point might have been maybe the train fight from From Russia With Love, where Sean Connery fights that guy in the train compartment. But that's nothing like jumping front kick flying sidekick or any of that kind of stuff.

Pat [00:30:46] Yeah. No. Yeah, it's good stage fighting, but it's not this next level stuff that all of a sudden Bruce Lee is putting on the scene.

Ben [00:30:51] Yeah. And you know, we had action movies. There's a lot of cowboy movies and war movies, a lot of shooting. Most of the fighting was punching and stuff. You didn't see a lot of kicks. You didn't see a lot of the speed that Bruce Lee brings to the table. And we've talked about the the the unstoppable punch and the stealing, the quarter.

Pat [00:31:07] He was fast.

Ben [00:31:09] He was extremely fast. And that actually caused the problem on the set of Green Hornet, because in 1966, right now we can do whatever 60 frames per second we can do HD, you know, all that stuff. But movie camera in 1966, it was lucky if it could hit 24 frames per second. And according to legend, Bruce Lee could punch nine times in one second. So, yeah, they said that there was footage from season one of the Green Hornet where it looks like Bruce Lee is standing perfectly still and everybody around him is falling down because the camera couldn't catch him. He was moving too fast and it looked funny on camera. So what they ended up having to do was to make him slow down. He still looks fast. If you watch reruns from the show, he still looks really fast, but he had to slow down to like 50% speed so that the camera could catch him doing the things that he was doing, which is just awesome. Yeah. So the Green Hornet only runs for one season and just doesn't catch on and it it gets canceled. And Bruce Lee is in Hollywood now and he's doing some bit roles here and there. And, you know, one of the these American producers says, you know, you kind of have this cred of being an American film and TV star. Now, why don't you go back to Hong Kong, make a couple of movies there. Hong Kong has you know, it's a thing worth talking about with Bruce Lee is that he didn't invent martial arts movies. He wasn't the first ever kung fu movie star. Hong Kong has been doing these films for a while, but but they just didn't have an American audience at the time.

Pat [00:32:41] Exactly.

Ben [00:32:42] Yeah. So his producer in the States says, Why don't you go back to Hong Kong, make a couple of movies there, and then I can leverage that. If you make a movie in Hong Kong, I can leverage it into something that I can sell in the States. Okay, why not? Bruce goes back to Hong Kong. He talks a little bit with the Shaw Brothers and ends up signing with a company called Golden Harvest. And he makes a movie called The Big Boss, and it blows up. It makes him a huge celebrity in China and eventually in the U.S. as well. And it's the first of like kind of the five main Bruce Lee movies that everybody talks about when they think about this guy. So he did Big Boss, Fist of Fury, Return of the Dragon, Enter the Dragon and Game of Death. Those are the five big ones. And I had talked about Midnight Kung Fu, but like, they wouldn't show any of these movies at midnight Kung Fu because it's not cheesy enough and it's too mainstream or whatever.

Pat [00:33:34] Yeah. Yeah.

Ben [00:33:36] And I don't know. Have you seen any of these? You watch.

Pat [00:33:39] The movies? Not really. A few clips here and there. Yeah, they hold up.

Ben [00:33:43] Okay. Especially into the dragon. They hold up fine. But it's, you know, it's. It's hard to. If you hadn't seen see, for instance, the big boss and you've watched a lot of Avengers and the Matrix, it's. It's kind of hard to go back and watch some of the older stuff.

Pat [00:33:59] But put it in historical perspective. Nothing comes out of a vacuum. And one of the reasons we have these moves in The Matrix and the Avengers movies is because we've had Bruce Lee and other martial artists on screen paving the way.

Ben [00:34:16] Right. You know, before Enter the Dragon. Sean Connery is kind of punching a guy in a train compartment after Bruce Lee. Daniel Craig is doing judo throws and.

Pat [00:34:29] Yeah, yeah.

Ben [00:34:31] And that sort of thing. So, you know, this is an interesting thing when you're studying history of of any kind or even, you know, say, sports history, you have Steph Curry who does all of these, you know, amazing dribbling, amazing ball control, dribbling techniques. But he grew up watching Dr. Dre and Dr. Jason doesn't look as good now, but it's because when he did it, nobody had ever seen it before. And then Steph Curry grew up learning like watching Dr. J and trying to emulate that and build upon that. So everything kind of builds and grows based on what came before.

Pat [00:35:02] And in addition to the martial arts moves, we also have nunchucks being introduced to American audiences. Yes, people in the States hadn't really seen nunchucks.

Ben [00:35:12] Yeah, that was a pretty new thing. That was a pretty unique thing here. And it's awesome. I love nunchucks.

Pat [00:35:17] Yeah, yeah.

Ben [00:35:18] I suck at them, but I like them. And we see the influence of a lot of these movies today, so. Mortal Kombat came out of Enter the Dragon. The old Kung fu master game came from Game of Death. You know, fighting game heroes to this day always kind of seemed to make some Bruce Lee noises. So Bruce goes and he makes these movies and they end up, you know, getting big in in Hong Kong and China, but also in the U.S. And it's how he kind of introduces the Western world to martial arts. And like you said, nunchucks and fighting movies. And even some like Jackie Chan's first movie was as a stuntman. He gets punched in the head during Enter the Dragon, Small Hung is introduced to the Western audiences. I have a personal love of Jim Kelly, his black belt Jones, which was from Enter the Dragon as well. But then he ended up getting a couple of action movies of his own. And even it's even now the world was introduced to Chuck Norris.

Pat [00:36:14] Yeah, and Chuck Norris, in a way, is the canonical badass. I say this because there have been Chuck Norris means going around the Internet for, I don't know, a decade and a half at least, and maybe they existed even before the Internet. You know, there's a picture of Chuck Norris on a landline and it says Chuck Norris catches all the Pokemon from a landline. And, you know, and then there's a picture of Chuck Norris with thumbs up. Chuck Norris hit 11 out of ten targets with nine bullets. And you know, it's supposed to be goofy. Yeah, but but I'm saying this to say this is the reputation Chuck Norris has. In a way, he's the canonical badass. And Bruce Lee comes along.

Ben [00:37:01] Yeah. And Bruce Lee kind of introduced him to the world at the time. Chuck Norris was just he was just but he was a world karate champion, but he wasn't an actor. Bruce and him had been training together a little bit. He got Chuck Norris his first acting role in Return of the Dragon. It's also known as The Way of the Dragon. It's the only movie that Bruce Lee wrote and directed. He wrote, directed and stars in it and got Chuck Norris to be the bad guy in it. Chuck Norris begrudgingly was like, Do I have to get beat up? And Bruce is like, You got to get beat up. And Chuck was like, All right, well, I'm going to give you a good fight, though, okay? We can do that. And it's it's really like, you know, the most Bruce Lee gets beat up in any of his movies is in this, like, fantastic martial arts sequence at the end of Return of the Dragon.

Pat [00:37:45] Yeah.

Ben [00:37:45] Chuck, of course, goes on to be one of America's firsts. Like, you know, American born martial arts heroes and kind of the iconic one, as you mentioned. But it's just a it's a cool story.

Pat [00:37:55] Yeah. And he, in a way, got his start through. Bruce Lee.

Ben [00:37:58] Yeah, exactly. And a lot of people did. Right? So so yeah, Bruce's not just groundbreaking in the fact that he was, you know, bringing martial arts to American audiences, but he's also inspirational to a lot of he's an Asian-American lead. He's an Asian man leading a movie, right. That is successful in the U.S. And he's the first real Asian movie star, first of all, martial arts hero. And he's inspirational to a lot of people who kind of came after him. Yeah, right. He kind of paved the way for basically a nonwhite person to be the lead in a movie. He got a lot of blowback on, of course.

Pat [00:38:35] Yeah, that's how things worked. Yeah.

Ben [00:38:37] But after this, like you have, like I said, Hong Kong has been making martial arts movies for a long time. And so maybe not even just in front of the camera. But what you end up with after this is Hollywood directors and producers are like, We need to do martial arts in our movies. We need to step up the fighting in our movies. And so they bring over Hong Kong action heroes, choreographers, stunt directors. And you start to see an influx of, you know, diversity in Hollywood cinema of people coming over and getting into positions they that were close to them before.

Pat [00:39:13] Yeah, totally. And Bruce Lee is playing an action hero. He's not playing a stereotypical villain.

Ben [00:39:22] Yes.

Pat [00:39:23] Which was one of the stereotypes for roles that Asian-American actors were kind of steered into playing before this.

Ben [00:39:31] Yeah. And like, as we saw with Christopher Lee playing Fu Manchu, a lot of times, like, they cast the white actor in that Asian role, right, as the bad guy, which is bad all around.

Pat [00:39:41] Yeah.

Ben [00:39:42] You know, so this is kind of groundbreaking and it it opens a lot of doors for people to come come past it. The the most successful movie that Bruce Lee had and in the States and the first real American major release of a martial arts movie was Enter the Dragon in 1973. Sadly, Bruce Lee wasn't able to attend the the premiere. He passed away six days before its release. He had a cerebral edema and died at age 32, just kind of right in the prime of his life.

Pat [00:40:14] Yeah. And there were a lot of theories circulating his untimely death. We're not going to deal with them here.

Ben [00:40:22] Yeah. Yeah. I really don't want to get into any of the conspiracy theory stuff that circulates around Bruce Lee's death. There is, except to say that maybe there's, like, a fascination with that sort of thing of. Of people who were taken out of the world in their prime. Right. The James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Jim Morrison. Heath Ledger. Yeah. You know, even in JFK, right. Somebody who was kind of at the height of their like just huge rising star. And then and then it's over. He left behind a wife and two kids. One of them was Brandon Lee, who played the crow before his own untimely death on the set of of that movie Enter the Dragon goes on to gross $400 million worldwide, becomes a huge hit and it kind of creates a whole new genre of like copycat, you know, martial arts movies. And that's kind of what you were alluding to before when you were talking about. Bruce Exploitation.

Pat [00:41:19] Exploitation. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. And some of these Bruce Floyd haters or Bruce Lee imitators actually would use variations on the name Bruce Lee as their stage name, misspelling it creatively. Kind of reminds me of Annie Oakley and Annie Oakley, flotation.

Ben [00:41:35] Of the Annie Oakley being arrested for cocaine possession.

Pat [00:41:39] Well, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, even before people were getting arrested for cocaine, there were people using there were other women using kind of versions of her name as their stage names. And they just wanted to ride the crest of popularity. So but we're here to talk about actual Bruce Lee, not his imitators.

Ben [00:41:57] Yes. But he was such a cultural phenomenon that it inspired imitators, which is kind of worth mentioning. Yes. The final movie of his career, Game of Death, is is basically it's a Bruce Lee movie, but it's also Bruce exploitation. He he had filmed parts of it before he left to go do enter the Dragon. And the film company was trying to capitalize on his success. And they finished the movie with only 15 minutes of Bruce Lee in the movie, only 15 minutes of him make the final cut. They used body doubles and they used stock footage. They use clips from other movies to try to finish this thing. Nowadays, they just like CG it.

Pat [00:42:35] Yeah, like with Star Wars.

Ben [00:42:37] One of the only bits that exists exists from that is that fight with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was one of Bruce's students in real life.

Pat [00:42:43] Yeah, And.

Ben [00:42:43] That's like that's iconic.

Pat [00:42:45] That's iconic. Yeah. And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a badass in his own right. But that's a story for another day. Absolutely.

Ben [00:42:50] Absolutely. Great. Big time sports badass Kareem is awesome. Yeah. This is the, you know, the yellow jumpsuit. And he fights Kareem and Bruce is maybe five eight, and Kareem is like, seven two. So the fight is really impressive. But yeah, that movie was kind of has, has a place in the Bruce Lee library and it's not necessarily a really positive one because of how much the studio manipulated his likeness to try it. I think at one point in it he, he gets plastic surgery to look different and that's how they get like the Bruce Lee impersonator to, you know, if they have to show his face, it's not great. But that scene is great.

Pat [00:43:30] It's it was sounds like it was slapped together.

Ben [00:43:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about Star Wars where they put the CGI faces, age people and all that stuff. That's how they do it now.

Pat [00:43:40] Yeah.

Ben [00:43:41] Which I'd argue is not that much more tasteful than what they were doing back then. But, you know, bringing Peter Cushing back from the dead to play Grand Moff Tarkin Again, I don't know how I feel about that, but yeah.

Pat [00:43:52] But it's a thing that Hollywood does however we may feel about it.

Ben [00:43:56] Yes, everybody wants to capitalize. I mean, even Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino did him extremely dirty and once upon a time in Hollywood, but he also, like, ripped off the yellow tracksuit and the one inch punch for Kill Bill. So who knows what's happening there? Yeah. So anyway, Bruce was a pioneer for for Asian actors, for stunt coordinators, choreographers, for martial arts in general. I think Dana White of the UFC once referred to him as the father of mixed martial arts, the Gracie family, who are very influential in Brazilian jiu jitsu. They talk about him as one of the greats and not just because he was doing some martial arts movie stuff, but he was also doing, you know, leg locks. He does an armbar and into the dragon. He was doing groundwork. He was really into the science of fighting and and adapting a little bit of everything from the different styles. And that is kind of how AMA works today. And he was a he was also, you know, in addition to all of that, he was a philosopher and a writer. He wrote and directed Way of the Dragon, as I said. And he also pitched a show called Warrior when he was towards the end of his of his life. It was a show that was going to be about a traveling monk who was going around during the Old West and having adventures here. Pat, you had mentioned earlier that your dad was a big Kung fu fan and Bruce's pitch was rejected because they didn't want any Asian leads in a TV show. They didn't think that was going to sell. But then the next year they came out with a show called Kung Fu starring David Carradine, and it was a hugely successful series.

Pat [00:45:26] Yep, that's what I grew up with on in the background. Yeah.

Ben [00:45:29] And they actually made a show called Warrior. Now it's on HBO, and they do credit him as the creator of it. And it does have Asian American lead actors, which I think is cool.

Pat [00:45:40] Yeah.

Ben [00:45:40] So that's the story of Bruce Lee. He was more than just an actor. He was a martial artist. He was kind of a ground breaking person and and a really fascinating, badass character.

Pat [00:45:52] And yeah.

Ben [00:45:53] Broke down a lot more doors than just like, the physical ones.

Pat [00:45:57] Indeed.

Ben [00:45:58] All right. Well, I think that is all we have for today. We really hope that you guys liked the show. And please don't forget to subscribe and share this with your friends, because that really helps us out a lot. Thank you guys so much, as always for listening. And we're looking forward to seeing you on the next one.

Pat [00:46:14] Stay badass, be water. Badass of the Week is an iHeart radio podcast produced by High Five Content. Executive producers are Andrew Jacobs, Pat Larash, and Ben Thompson. Writing is by Pat and Ben. Story editing is by Ian Jacobs, Brandon Fibbs and Ali Lemer. Mixing and music and Sound Design is by Jude Brewer. Consulting by Michael May. Special thanks to Noel Brown at iHeart. Badass of the Week is based on the website BadassoftheWeek.com, where you can read all sorts of stories about other badasses. If you want to reach out with questions or ideas, you can email us at badasspodcast@badassoftheweek.com. If you like the podcast, subscribe, follow, listen and tell your friends and your enemies if you want, as we'll be back next week with another one. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.